Fear and Leaders

Lord of the Flies has a Machiavellian power structure laid into it. When Ralph rises to power there is pushback from Jack, who wanted his position. Ralph is concerned for the safety of the littluns, while Jack disregards them and just wants to do what has to get done.

Piggy does instill fear by suggesting the idea that they will surely die on the island, but is Piggy really in a position of power?

Machiavelli writes that a ruler, in order to be successful, must rule with fear instilled in his/her subjects. We have seen numerous instances of thriving leaders rule without fear (George Washington etc). Fear plays a role in The Lord of the Flies, however, the fear is not imposed by the leaders (Ralph, Jack), but rather the creature that they fear

Leaders do not necessarily need to cause fear in order to have people's discipline and attention. In today's society most leaders do not cause fear and still have the people's respect. Stepping up to be a leader means to take charge and be the one to make decisions. Leaders do not need fear, because in Lord of the Flies, Ralph takes charge of everyone on the island but nobody in afraid of him or shows fear

Machiavelli states that in order to be a successful leader, it is best to be feared. In Lord of the Flies, Ralph takes on the role of the leader. His leadership is not very successful because he is not feared by the other boys. Since he is not feared, he cannot control them. For example, when Ralph told everyone to help build shelters, the other boys did not listen and did other activities instead.

In Lord of the Flies, Ralph emerges as a leader after all the boys vote on a chief. He neither cruel nor kind, which is a fair balance from Machiavelli's perspective, and he doesn't really take charge either. According to his principles, Ralph will not be successful as a leader. He is not controlling the boys nor trying earn their loyalty. He's kind of just "there" to make decisions. If Ralph wants to be a successful leader, he should try to adhere to Machiavelli's principles.

Machiavelli explains that it is nearly impossible to unite fear and love into the same person. He argues that it is much "safer to be feared than loved" because without fear there would be no unity or order and with love comes the idea of weakness. If people don't see their leaders as people of power and have a respectful fear of them, order will be difficult to maintain. He also defends the notion that it is impossible to lead without fear because power has to be apparent in order to inspire law abiding citizens.

Machiavelli believes that you should be loved and feared, but since both cannot exist together, it's safer to be feared than it is to be loved. I agree with him because if people are not at least a little fearful of the leader, they will not listen to authority which will just cause loss of power and chaos. In Lord of the Flies, the fear comes from the boys being stuck on this island rather than being fearful of Ralph, who has been chosen to be the leader so far. They know they need to listen to him because they believe he is the best authority figure on the island and can lead them to get off the island eventually.

According to Machiavelli, is it possible for a leader to lead well without fear? Do you agree? What role does fear play in Lord of the Flies?

Machiavelli does not think a leader can lead well without fear. He talks about how being feared is a much safer way to lead rather than being loved because it prevents the followers from turning against the leader. Machiavelli says men are naturally "ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, [and] covetous" but if they fear their leader, "they will offer you their blood, property, life, and children" (Machiavelli 2). I agree with Machiavelli's opinion because if a leader is loved it is more difficult to accomplish tasks but if a leader is feared, it can enforce tasks upon their followers and accomplish many things. In Lord of the Flies, it is very clear the Ralph is feared by the fellow boys at the beginning because he is very forceful and immediately takes control. However by the third chapter, it becomes difficult for him to accomplish the tasks of building shelter and hunting because he becomes nicer and less forceful. If Ralph stayed strong and made sure the other boys knew he was the leader, they would be a lot closer to survival.

In the passage, Machiavelli describes how a Prince should lead his people and what makes a great leader in his eyes. According to the excerpt, he states that a great leader is a person who is feared not loved and also not hated. Back then, men who feared their leaders were the men that did the most for him. They go to battles for him or give blood to him if he needed it. Also a great leader respects a man's property. For example, by not taking his land or the land that was owned by his late father. Also a leader shouldn't take a man's wife. All of these examples will led to hatred to their leader among the people because no one likes when a leader is dominant and takes the citizens' possessions.

Fear is not needed to lead a group of people. Leaders need strong words and confidence to be able to lead a large group of people. In lord of the flies Ralph becomes the unofficial leader of the group by blowing into a shell. Ralph users the shell to become the leader when he "laid the conch against his lips, took a deep breath, and blew once more" (Golding 17). Instead of insighting fear he brings the group of boys together and unites them. Machiavelli states that leaders that insight fear into their people they are more likely to stay in power. This might have been true in the olden days, but in this certain situation no one was in power. Ralph took control of the group and handled the situation whide uniting the boys.

Early on in Lord of the Flies, there seems to be a leadership based on fear, but at the same time, because Jack and Ralph were the ones who stepped up and took command so that shows that fear can be needed, but leadership doesn't have to be based entirely on fear

Machiavelli does believe that it is possible to lead without fear and instead lead be being loved, however he also states that "it is much safer to be feared than be loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with," (Machiavelli 2). I agree with Machiavelli when he says that one can lead by being loved, however I disagree with him when he says that it is better to be feared than loved. This is because if a leader is loved, then those being led will follow the rules happily instead of angrily. Fear plays a role in Lord of the Flies because the little kids in the novel are afraid of a snake-like "beastie" that may live in the jungle. This fear causes them to listen to what Ralph says as the leader.

According to Machiavelli, it's very much possible to be a leader without instilling fear but chances are you won't be a good leader. While he says it would be ideal to be both loved and feared, "it is difficult to unite them in one person, it is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with." I personally believe that it is possible to be a good leader without instilling fear in people. The basis of being able to control and unify a group of people stems from trust, trust is the main component of being able to lead of group of people well. While fear and love can both better help in keeping order, neither is a necessity of a good leader.

I agree with you.
Leaders need to make sure the citizens know who is leader and the consequences for their actions. On the island, Ralph needs to exercise more leadership. Most children appear to not really care what Ralph says and Jack is constantly challenging Ralph's judgement. Without the use of fear, these actions may lead to something worse on the island.

According to Machiavelli, it is impossible to lead without fear. He argues that leaders must "inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred" (2). I agree with this statement because if leaders respect their citizens, citizens respect them back, and fear develops out of respect of power. Without some fear of consequence, it is impossible to keep citizens in check. In Lord of the Flies, the children respect Ralph because he makes decisions in the best interest of the group. However, they do not fear him because he does not punish people for not working.

Princes should have "open hands". Open hands is when a prince as the complete and full power to make all the decisions. However, just because a prince has this power doen't mean that they can't listen to the people or an advising counsel. In "Lord the Flies" Ralph becomes the leader of the group of boys on the island. I feel as if Ralph, as of right now, as open hands. "Shut up! Wait! Listen! He went on in the silence borne on his triumph... A fire! Let's make a fire! At once half the boys were on their feet." (Golding 38) Ralph shows here that he makes the decisions and the boys listen, just like a prince with open hands.

Machiavelli rightfully claims that it is not possible for someone to effectively be in power without an element of fear. I agree because it is hard for many people to follow the laws of a ruler who has no way to enforce them or punish people if they break them. In Lord of the Flies, Ralph was able to effectively become leader by taking charge, calling a meeting, and giving certain jobs to the boys, but he was unable to enforce them or get people to listen. For example, he needed the help of the boys to built huts for shelter on the beach, but with no element of fear or condemnation, he was unable to get the boys to work or even listen for long periods of time.

Most people look out for the stick instead of the carrot. When a leader does not use a show of force or the occasional act of cruelty, the citizens may doubt the true power of the leader and not follow him/her. In Lord of the Flies, Ralph is having trouble controlling all the little children. the children are young and don't know how to sacrifice their wants for their needs. Machiavelli compares this to the Florentine people, without fear within the people and control, the people "permitted Pistoia to be destroyed" (Machiavelli). If people fear the leader, they will follow him to a greater extent rather than driven by the thought of reward.

According to Machiavelli, is it possible for a leader to lead well without fear?

Machiavelli believes that a leader can rule with fear or no fear, however, for a great leader to be secure in his throne and have masses of people under his demand requires instilling fear in the population. Machiavelli also states that leader can also "endure very well being feared whilst he is not hated" (Niccolo Machiavelli, 2). Which displays the ways in which leaders can be feared, to maintain power, but to ensure a positive public opinion. Machiavelli also talks about how the only way to secure a a friendship, or alliance, is through fear as it forces one to commit "by a dread of punishment which never fails" (Niccolo Machiavelli, 2). @Garrett26

According to Machiavelli, "it is much safer to be feared than loved". It is arguable that humans will support a leader they love most of the time. However, if people fear their leader then that fear will act as a guarantee of support. For example, in Lord of the Flies, Ralph takes on the leader figure. However, the boys do not fear Ralph which causes him to not have very much control over them. If the boys did fear Ralph then they would have followed his orders. For example, when Ralph ordered the boys to build shelters, the boys ignored Ralph and continued on with their individual activities.

Are you saying that people are sometiems lead by an entity that instills fear in them without even knowing this is controlling them?

I respectfully disagree with your point and see Machiavelli's reasoning. Fear is definitively needed to lead because it inspires respect. Yes respect could be achieved without fear, but it is extremely difficult. A respectful amount of fear inspires citizens to abide to laws and policies so they do not get punished.

In "Lord of the Flies" William Golding uses the idea of fear to further the characters profiles and extend the story line. Both minor and major characters play a large role in the development of the story line and therefore, while Golding develops and evolves the characters description, he extends the meaning of the story line. When an unnamed "small boy" speaks about a supposed "snake-thing", the whole setting of the story changes as characters now faced with more than just the challenge of survival but fear of a possible threat (William Golding, 35).

Machiavelli says leaders can be feared or loved, rarely both. "it is much safer to be feared than loved" (Machiavelli 2). Machiavelli then goes on to explain how feared leaders last longer and overal rule better. So, is it possible to be a good leader without being feared. I think you can be a good leader without being feared. Ralph from "Lord of the Flies" as showed (so far) that he is a good leader and that his people follow him. Ralph, however, is not feared. His people just look up to him. Ralph didn't force the boys to listen to him. Ralph is just one example of a good leader who isn't feared.